“To me it was just a joke.”

Church of Buvoo. I founded it with – it was mostly this friend and me, his name is Steve Gillard. I met Steve at a men’s group I started going to. . . While I was in that men’s group I started talking a lot about shame. It was something they never talked about. It was a very intellectual group. I came there and I started talking about shame and . . stirred up the group. Steve was very much like I was a few years before. Lost. What to do? Then I told him about not shaming his son and blah blah. It really changed his life. He stopped shaming his son and all kinds of different things happening. In some way he became like a student or something to me. Or he wanted to practice with me or something. He started sitting, and we started talking about this stuff. He was a lawyer. This thing about Buvoo was kind of a joke but he was very much interested in making this religion. He had himself been part of a cult, a Christian cult. He did that ten years when he was younger. we just talked about him and thought it was a fun idea or something like that. It was somewhat about theater, and art. We were being artists. There was somewhat a theatrical quality to it. So he was very much interested. He himself really wanted to be a Buvoo priest and he has writer’s block, he wants to be a writer instead of being a lawyer. He doesn’t like to be a lawyer. So he was kind of looking for something. To me it was just a joke. I liked to do it. I mean I still like Buvoo, I love it. That’s my religion.

Niels Holm
9.29.1941 – 9.27.2007

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